Weeks 4-6
Please use the comments section to answer questions. Do not try to answer all questions. Try to keep up an average of one per week, with time for a few comments on the ideas of others.
1.
Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales
in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either
beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
3.Hahn's essay (see critical reader)on The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleidentifies the motif of the loathly lady, but arguesit has a different purpose than asserting the feminine. What does he think the function of the story is?
4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
6. What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
3.Hahn's essay (see critical reader)on The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleidentifies the motif of the loathly lady, but arguesit has a different purpose than asserting the feminine. What does he think the function of the story is?
4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
6. What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
ReplyDeleteWhile we now may associate the word “conceit” with many other phrases, in the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, conceits are a lexical function as a figure of speech, usually based around a simile or metaphor that draws an extremely arbitrary or complex connection between seemingly unrealatable objects or situations. (Literary Devices, n.d) This usually leads onto a lengthy extended analogy which Encyclopaedia Britannica (n.d) says references an “entity’s spiritual qualities and an object in the physical world and sometimes controls the whole structure of the poem.” These were typically popular with renaissance writers of sonnets in order to develop exaggerated and dramatic effects to their poetry. (Encyclopaedia Britannica, n.d)
Not to be confused with a common or hyperbolic, extended metaphor or simile, much like “You are an elephant” or “You are as heavy as an elephant,” as we can directly and overtly understand the common denominator between the comparison; a quality of “weight or heaviness”(Literary Devices, n.d). However, it is more artistic and a thought provoking if it were compared (directly or indirectly) to something more strange.
Such an example can be drawn from Ballad Upon a Wedding by Sir John Suckling (as cited from Poetry Soup, para. 8, L. 1-6)
“Her feet beneath her petticoat,
Like little mice, stole in and out,
As if they feared the light:
But oh! she dances such a way,
No sun upon an Easter Day
Is half so fine a sight!”
This is only a fraction of the conceit in the full poem of which goes on further to describe other characteristics of this lady, but I found this one a pretty strange comparison of a single feature, which is extended over the entire stanza.
A comparison (i.e. a metaphor or a simile) turns into a conceit when the audience and the writer agrees on a similarity between two things of whose difference is also apparent, which is often set to enhance the senses of the readership, giving a life-like richness to the poetry. However, conceits could often be considered absurd as the relationship between the description and the object were too different and the contrasting differences were too great, therefore creating strain on the poem. (Encyclopaedia Britannica, n.d).
They are designed to challenge readers to refresh and to rethink our worlds by offering the new ways of examining ideas that are otherwise familiar to us. Thusly, they produce frequently surprising, memorable or otherwise shocking effect because they are unique contrasts unlike the typical comparisons found in similes and metaphors. (Literary Devices, n.d)
References
Encyclopaedia Britannica. (n.d.). conceit | figure of speech | Encyclopedia Britannica. Retrieved March 25, 2015, from http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/130855/conceit
Literary Devices. (n.d.). Conceit - Examples and Definition of Conceit. Retrieved March 25, 2015, from http://literarydevices.net/conceit/
Poetry Soup. (n.d.). A Ballad upon a Wedding | Poem by Sir John Suckling. Retrieved March 25, 2015, from http://www.poetrysoup.com/famous/poem/7410/A_Ballad_upon_a_Wedding
1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
ReplyDeleteThe act of transformation from a hideous beast into something more desirable and acceptable; The Loathly lady motif has had several impacts on literature over the course of time. Some will recognise this through what is probably the most popular and recent and repeated versions of Beauty and the Beast. However, in contrast to this version, the original crafting of this theme was based solely around a woman starting as the beast, which is can be seen through these three tales:
Tale of the Wyf of Bathe / The Wife of Bath’s tale
The Tale of the Wife of Bath from Chaucer (1965) carries this fabula of the loathly lady through the magical creature that aids the troubled knight, Sir Gawain. The lusty Sir Gawain has taken the virginity of a lady and is almost sentenced to death for the crime but instead the wife of King Arthur, of which Gawain has sworn allegiance to, Queen Gwenivere gives him the chance to save his life if he answers the question “What thing it is that women most desire” (L.1007). It should be noted that it is Sir Gawain himself that causes his predicament and he suffers banishment until he discovers the answer. It’s at this point of depression, he encounters a creature only described at the time as “Save on the green he saw sitting a woman / There can no man imagine an uglier creature” (L. 998-999) but is further elaborated on as “ugly, old and poor” (L. 1063) of whom gives the answer to him.
However this help is not for free and he is asked to “pledge me thy word here in my hand” (L.1009) to make a promise that he will acknowledge a request at a later date, of which he agrees and he is taught the answer which saved his life. However the cost of the knowledge was to take the creature “as thy wife” (L.1055) of which, he expresses great despair but still, as his word as a knight, he gives in to her request.
The story does not end here, as continues with the beast motif, the transformation must occur, and so his distress at her appearance is made apparent.
“The conditions that change the appearance
“What is my offense? For god’s love, tell it
And it shall be amended, if I can”
“Amended?” Said this knight, “Alas, nay, nay!
It will not be amended ever more.
Thou art so loathsome and so old also,
And moreover descended from such low born lineage,
That little wonder is though I toss and twist about.
So would God my hear would burst!”
“Is this,” she said, “the cause of your distress?” (L. 1096-1104)
“Now sir,” she said “I could amend all this,” (L. 1106) This is where the transformation is acknowledged, but like in the first instance they met, there is a choice and a price for that choice and it will undoubtedly have it consequences (which is also how the knight began his story.)
“Choose now,” she said, “one of these two things:
ReplyDeleteTo have me ugly and old until I die,
And be to you a true, humble wife,
And never displease you in all my life,
Or else you will have, me young and fair,
And take your chances of the crowd” (L.1219-1224)
It is at this moment that Sir Gawain shows depth, and a degree of character development, by acknowledging what this creature had said earlier to be true, that a woman wants is the complete governance of herself and her husband and says this:
“My lady my love, and my wife so dear,
I put me in your wise governance:
Choose yourself which may be most pleasure
For as it pleases you, is enough for me” (L. 1230, 1235)
Showing that he himself knows her to be right in her judgement, that all she really wishes is to have mastery of herself and her husband, and if she should have the freedom of choice and not to the benefit of those surrounding her, including her own husband.
“Then I have I gotten mastery of you,” she said,
“Since I may choose and govern as I please?” (L.1236-1237)
This is the cause for her transformation; his acceptance of her and her choices drives her decision to changing to be young and fair while being faithful in her marriage to Sir Gawain. “That she so was beautiful, and so young moreover” (L. 1251) Therefore creating happiness in their marriage, and thusly a happy ending.
King Henry
Now unlike Sir Gawain, Steeyele (1972) describes King Henry as “a store of gold, and open heart / And full of charity” (L.3-4) rather than a lusty man, and as like their character traits contrast, so do their situations. Chaucer’s (1965) Sir Gawain was a victim of his own doing, while King Henry was a victim of circumstance, being trapped in a hall after a sudden earthquake separates him from his men.
“And in there came a grisly ghost” (L.23) the beast comes forth, and like The Wife of Baths Tale, she is a creature with some mysticism or supernatural power, however the description of her is less vague than Chaucer described his beast; “Her teeth were like the tether stakes / Her nose like club or mell / and nothing less she seemed to be / Than a fiend that comes from hell” (L.29-32).
ReplyDeleteFrom this point on the motif is carried on as King Henry meets all the demands set by the ghost but in contrast to Sir Gawain, other than true fear of her there are no benefits or motivational information for King Henry to complete these tasks; meat from his horse, greyhounds and goshawks, a horse-hide full of wide, to make a bed for them, to strip down and agree to marry her. Yet however, he complies but more like that of Sir Gawain, he is filled with despair upon the request of marriage: “Oh God forbid, says King Henry / That ever the like betide / That ever a fiend that comes from hell / Should stretch down by my side” (L.78-81)
It is at this point in time, as it seems is a match to that of Chaucer’s tale that the beast bride claims mastery over him as he does all the tasks she asks. This causes her transformation into “the fairest lady that ever was seen” (L.84) as she goes on to explain “I’ve met with many a gentle knight / That gave me such a fill / But never before with a courteous knight / That gave me all my will.” Therefore by giving her everything she asks of him, she claimed mastery over him and by his good heart (which we see at the end with Sir Gawain as well) she herself changes into a good woman.
The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle
The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle is almost identical to that of The Wife of Bath’s Tale, except the main focus is not that of Sir Gawain but of King Arthur, of whom is the first to meet his creature, who like Chaucer and Steeyele’s tales, possesses notable qualities of a truly horrendous appearance, which is given a significant amount of detail:
“Her face was red, her nose running,
Her mouth wide, her teeth all yellow.
Her eyes were bleary, as large as balls,
Her mouth just as large.
Her teeth hung out of her lips,
Her cheeks were as broad as a woman’s hips.
Her back was as carved as a lute.
Her neck was long and also thick.
Her hair was a clotted heap.
In the shoulders she was a yard across.
Her breasts would have been a load for a horse.
Like a barrel was she made.
To recite the foulness of that lady
There is no tongue fit.
She had ugliness to spare.” (L.7-21)
Now much like Chaucer’s (1972) Wife of Bath’s tale, this creature possesses information that the hero requires in order to complete or fulfil a mission to save their lives. This dire information is just detailed in the extract in Hahn (1995) as a “promise you life / Otherwise, you lose your head,” (L.44-45) but in the full tale, it is the answer which Sir Gawain sought when he was banished into the forest by Queen Gwenivere: “What do women want most?” and like Sir Gawain in Chaucer’s tale, the answer if promised from the beast, Dame Ragnelle; the sister of the man who threatens Arthur’s life. Again this information it comes at a cost, and the cost to Arthur is for the hand of his knight Sir Gawain. This causes conflict for the great king as a sacrifice like this and expresses himself so:
ReplyDelete“woe is me
That I should cause Gawain to marry you
For he will hate saying no
I’ve never seen such an ugly woman
Anywhere on this Earth
I don’t know what to do!” (L.77-82)
“Foresooth” said the king, “never as badly.
Alas! I am at the point of killing myself,
For I would be better off dead.”
“No,” said Gawain, “that must not be.
I would rather be dead myself. (L.104-108)
As he is aware that his knights loyalty is great, he feels a great weight in asking this of one of them to marry such a monster. Nevertheless he asks Sir Gawain, and unlike Chaucer’s version of the knight, who committed a heinous crime, Hahn (1995) depicts the Knights fierce loyalty to his king as his true nature and that his king comes before his own happiness and accepts the proposal for the answer to save Arthur’s life which again is sovereignty over those around her:
“I shall wed her and wed her again,
Even if she be a fiend.
Even were she as foul as Beelzebub,
I would wed here, I swear by the cross.
Otherwise, I wouldn’t be your friend.
You are my honoured king
And have done me many times.
Therefore, I hesitate not
To save your life, my lord. It is my duty.
Otherwise, I would be a false coward.
My service is better than that!” (L.116-126)
The end of the tale is almost identical to that in The Wife of Bath’s Tale, except Gawain does not express so much despair as his loyalty to his king is greater than his lust for women, and he treats his new bride as any husband would. At this point Dame Ragnelle transforms into a beautiful woman, explaining she herself had been under a spell and proceeds to give Gawain the choice as she can only be beautiful for half the day. So the choice: to have her beautiful at night for only the two of them, or have her beautiful during the day for everyone to know, to which, much like the lusty Sir Gawain from Chaucer (1965) replies that she herself should make the choice that she would be satisfied with, giving her sovereignty over herself and her choices. This ultimately lifts the spell entirely and she remains beautiful at all times and Arthur is saved.
Reference:
DeleteChaucer, G., & In Winny, J. (1965). The wife of Bath's prologue and tale: From the Canterbury tales. Cambridge: University Press.
Hahn, T. (1995). Sir Gawain: Eleven romances and tales. Kalamazoo, MI: Published for TEAMS in Association with the University of Rochester by Medieval Institute Publications, Western Michigan University.
Steeyele, S. (1972). King Henry. In Below the Salt. US: Shanachie
This is very thorough indeed. Great job!
DeleteIndeed Grace, Courtney A has written a very thorough response, showing a real knowledge of the text. As I was reading it, and the play around the ideas of beauty and ugliness, I started wondering if the rape that starts it off could be seen as an ugly act, in need of transformation itself...
DeleteIn the first part you mention the beauty and the Beast. The stories of the Old seem to depict a woman as the beast and a hero/knight representing the beauty. But modern stories generally have the roles reversed.
DeleteI wonder if there is some sexism supporting this change. The woman who strives for love and is able to see past appearances, as they fall for the man inside. But men are more concerned with physical looks.
These knights/Heroes seem to only accept their marriage to the beast because of honour or because they're put into a tight spot.
Both knights get rewarded for their acceptance.
Just a thought to ponder.
I enjoyed reading.
Wowsers- you've been busy, Courtney! Awesome answers!
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna try and have a crack at question 2: The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree?
I want to begin by simply stating that I myself do agree that, to some degree, Chaucer was a feminist. I say this because he has clearly throughout the text made it seem as though men are weak and insignificant, while women can and do hold power and are respected. Carter (2003) said, “It is a commonplace when teaching the Wife of Bath’s... Tale to stress the anachronism of calling Chaucer a feminist...” (p.329). In portraying the knight in this story as a man lacking compassion and earnest (as most heroic figures of this time did), Chaucer was writing something that was practically unheard of in its time. Carter continued his train of thought by saying that “...since the knight is a sexual predator rather than an aristocratic sportsman, the turning of the power ratio to make him a sexual victim is acutely appropriate."
The reason I say Chaucer may have been a feminist "to some degree" is that I also think it quite possible, even likely, that he was just going against the norm of the writing style and the character types in that day to create something exciting and memorable. After all, it's a goal of each writer or poet alike to create a plot or a character that readers can relate to, and become intimately acquainted with. Perhaps it was just clever writing with no feminist or chauvanistic views whatsoever. What do you all think?
References:
Carter, S. (2003). Coupling the beastly bridge and the hunter hunted: What lies behind Chaucer’s wife or bath’s tale. The Chaucer Review, 37(4), 329-345. Retrieved from http://muse.jhu.edu
Chaucer, G. (n.d.). The Wife of Bath's Tale. Retrieved January 1, 2006, from http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/index.html
Hi Grace!
DeleteI think you are spot on in your summary paragraph. I completely agree that Chaucers main point was to break the proverbial mold of creative writing, and in doing so may have appeared to be feminist. It's true through the entire text the women hold all the cards, Queen Gwenivere, who saves Sir Gawain's life, the creature that gave him the answer and again when she gives him the choice of having her faithful or beautiful. I think it was to underline the fact that all women want is sovereignty over everything she has, including her husband. Doing this could suggest he was a feminist but much like you said, I think he was just trying to take a new perspective, as most creative writers aim to do.
Nice work!
Hi Grace and Courtney, Just to play the Devil's advocate here, the power Queen G wields in this situation is granted to her by the king, so male power is still in control in the background. Then of course we have the male writer himself ultimately pulling the strings.
DeleteThe opposite of Carter's Chaucer as proto-feminist theory is the idea that Chaucer was mocking women's aspirations even while appearing to give them voice.
That's a very good point! Perhaps this is because Chaucer was aware of social context and felt that he needed something to fall back on if his views were seen as feminist. I may well be looking too deep into this now, but it is a possibility that he was trying to stay on both sides of the fence by having a female character who held power (pro-feminism), but who got that power from a male (anti-feminism).
DeleteThe quote saying; 'to make him a sexual victim,' I think is inaccurate. I don't think he was such, when he got a beautiful woman in the end. The 'hag' may have been old and ugly, as it was put, but he kept his life and his torment was short lived. By the end of the poem and even the animation shown in class, the knight was a happy man. This makes me question whether he was a 'sexual victim' at all, as he knew the consequences of his actions.
DeleteIf this rings true, than the knight was in power and had privilege throughout the journey.
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example of a Conceit.
ReplyDeleteFrom all the conceits I looked at while answering question 4, I found Shakespeare’s poem 130, which is also featured in the reader, the most striking, as it is not used in the typical style for the period. While clichés were prominent in poetry for the period, much like they are in modern society today, to use such metaphors and indeed conceits in such an obtuse manner, completely makes a mockery of the extent in while the poets try to draw such arbitrary comparisons in order to often describe their objects of affection.
However, as we can see from Shakespeare’s Sonnet 130, he does use these clichés to his advantage, using them to demonstrate a new perspective of his love, rather, a seemingly negative one. As can be seen from Jones & MacKinnon (n.d) adaptation:
“
My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun; My mistress's eyes are not at all like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red; Coral is much more red than her lips;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun; If snow is white, then her breasts are certainly not white as snow;” (L.1-3) Dun is a specific colour to use- a greyish brown- definitely more skin coloured than white; it could suggest she is not as fair or as pure as others have been described. By destroying these clichés as such, it could be argued all the connotation that is carried so heavily with them can be destroyed with them.
“I have seen roses damask'd, red and white, I have seen roses colored a combination of red and white and pink,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks; But I do not see such colors in her cheeks;”(L.5-6) Here again we see softness can be taken away along with the simple colours in her cheeks.
“And in some perfumes is there more delight And some perfumes give more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks. Than the breath of my mistress.”(L.7-8) Now here is a negative quality, the lexical choice of the word “reeks” has a heavy connotation when compared to previous couplets.
“I love to hear her speak, yet well I know I love to hear her speak, but I know
ReplyDeleteThat music hath a far more pleasing sound; That music has a more pleasing sound than her voice;” (L.9-10) This is the first point Shakespeare has said he loves a quality of his sweetheart, following the heavily negative connotation from the previous lines. Still this is supposedly shadowed by the fact he thinks music is more pleasing than this quality.
“I grant I never saw a goddess go; I also never saw a goddess walk;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground: But I know that my mistress walks only on the ground.
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare And yet I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare. As any woman who has had poetic untruths told about her beauty with false comparisons” (L.11-14) This is the big turn-around for the poem, he directly brings heaven into the poem, not unheard of for sonnets of the day but he says, “I never see a goddess go” (L.11) meaning unlike all the greats who claims their loves to be that of the heavens, his love is a women from Earth, this could be furthered as a grounded woman as she “treads on the ground” (L.12) and despite her not being such a goddess, his love for her still exists. Just the same as any man who has written ridiculous conceits about their loves. Doing this brings these conceits back to earth, poking fun at the extremes poets try to describe their loves.
It should be noted that in not a single line he states she is in anyway ugly, but he bends the adjectives and the conceit to, much like all poetry, draw a picture in a sense of a few words, and by destroying these metaphors in such a way. He uses the lack of connotation and context drawn from not having these supposedly ‘good’ qualities that one should hope to achieve, should be taken negatively. This is coupled with such adjectives such as “reeks”, “treads” and “dun” does not help at first glance. Other than these factors he does not state outright any negative qualities, other than she does not possess the naturally clichéd ones used in poetry beforehand.
This is to draw the point while she is not physically the best or most attractive, he still loves his sweetheart despite her not being the most perfect that, at the time, most poets try and describe their loves to be, giving them a pedestal as the best or possessing the most of everything. This ribald humour of Shakespeare is not to be taken as seriously as most conceits are supposed to read, thus making it somewhat striking in its own right and definitely in its genre.
References
Jones, C., & MacKinnon, K. (n.d.). Sonnet 130. Retrieved April 8, 2015, from http://www.stthomasu.ca/inkshed/inkshed22/130.htm
Shakespeare, W., In Reed, E. B., Cross, W. L., Brooke, T., & Cumberlege, G. (1923). Shakespeare's Sonnets. London: Yale University Press.
Another excellent answer, Courtney A. I wonder if you realized that Shakespeare is referencing a particular poem in this sonnet in order to deflate hyperbolic love poems. The images he uses are drawn from that poem.
DeleteThe wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree?
ReplyDeleteThe Wife of Bath is about a knight who defiles a maiden and is forced to find an answer to a question, and given approximately a year. The knight must find out what women most desire.
There are multiple aspects that may be seen as feminism. The first would be the retribution offered to the maiden as the knight is brought to the court to face his crimes. The idea of rape as a crime in that particular era was largely overlooked, as shown in the tale. It is said that the rape of the maiden is compared to that of a hunt, (Carter, 2003), and so it was the way in which the knight stalked and took down his ‘prey’ that was dishonouring. It was perhaps his mindset and behaviour that got him into trouble rather than the act itself.
878 Women may go safely up and down.
879 In every bush or under every tree
880 There is no other evil spirit but he,
881 And he will not do them any harm except dishonor.
The use of the word dishonour confirms rape is not necessarily a crime, but it is dishonouring to the 'victim.' And so when Chaucer uses rape as a crime he is acknowledging women's troubles they face and women's desires of justice in some sense, although this does not mean he agrees with it. Carter (2003) suggests Chaucer was more interested in the destabilisation of gender roles. And that Chaucer shows this female liberation by the words and verbal communication used by the old lady/Bath’s wife.
The most prominent aspect of feminism is the Queen in power and the court of women. But if inspected closely, one can see the Queen would have been chosen and governed by a man, King Arthur. Instead of being punished he is given an option to prove himself worthy again by finding the answer to a question.
893 Perhaps such was the statute then --
894 Except that the queen and other ladies as well
895 So long prayed the king for grace
896 Until he granted him his life right there,
897 And gave him to the queen, all at her will,
898 To choose whether she would him save or put to
death.
To what purpose would the knight answering this question be equal to punishment? In some ways the knight is let off the hook. Looking at the extract above, one could see the sexism subtly present. By the idea that women are merciful and not violent. That women are simple creatures to be understood.
The knight may have answered the question to the satisfaction of the women within the court, and is forced to marry the old lady, but this woman turns beautiful after he promises to give her sovereignty. By flipping the system of governance within a pairing, it is not of equality. There seems to be no equal ground, and there is only the concept of someone as master and the other as servant/obedient.
1038 "Women desire to have sovereignty
1039 As well over her husband as her love,
1040 And to be in mastery above him.
This knight may have gone through some tiring times on his quest, but in the end he is rewarded. The reward of life and being married to a beautiful woman. If a man is rewarded and does not receive equal punishment to his crime, it suggests false feminism.
False feminism somewhat gives light to female liberation but men still have the upper hand.
Reference
Carter, S. (2003). Coupling The Beastly Bride And The Hunter Hunted: What Lies Behind in Chaucer’s Wife Of Bath’s Tale. In The Chaucer Review, Vol. 37, No. 4, 2003.
Chaucer, Geoffrey (c.1390). The Wife of Bath.
Powerful comment, Naomi. Good to see not everybody is convinced by Susan Carter's argument. Besides, feminists have never argued that woman could be mastery over the male, rather equality. I can't help thinking that the male author expresses this point of view in order to mock genuine aspirations.
ReplyDeleteMocking or not, I wonder if the audience in that particular time understood what Chauser portrayed. To outsides, his work is female centered with a male somewhat being punished. But if someone understood Chauser's 'joke' then it suggests it was for a particular audience. And this audience may be small, as the 'joke' is complex due to its political stand.
DeleteGood point, Naomi. I think the audience would be men, and men have always enjoyed a good joke on women! Perhaps, however, if Chaucer felt the need to mock female aspirations, those aspirations must have been there to mock in the first place.
DeleteAspirations to mock but I wonder what place or group. It was suggested that it was a mockery of Ireland/Scotlands take on the female role, I can't remember which culture, and so is this an inside joke for the British? Would women have understood the context.
Delete6. What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
ReplyDeleteRevard (1997) discusses many aspects of the English Renaissance and the relationship between language, sex and power. Essentially his main view expressed was that woman were not respected for their poetry on the same level as men were. Although female poets were accepted and to some extent taken seriously, equality among male and female was not yet established.
Male poets found it particularly hard to accept female poets, the fact that woman poets were just as capable as male poets was threating to them, although this would never be admitted by a male as they were too proud to admit a female could potentially be on an equal level. Revard (1997) states "For if a man and a woman compete in a literary contest and he "loses," as a man he also loses the right to dominate in other areas.” Males in the English Renaissance period saw importance in holding dominance, to them if a woman was to show equality it essentially indicates the loss of their dominance.
"it was apparently almost impossible in this era to be gender blind. " Revard (1997). Although on the surface female poets were commended for their literature and although their participation was not shunned, their sex always remained a focus of their judgement. The female poets would gain acknowledgment for their poetry, but complimented and commended mostly on their beauty and wit. Woman were judged on their appearance before any of their poetry which is a key representation of how far equality was from being established during the English Renaissance.
I find what Revard (1997) suggests about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance intriguing, it seems as though it was an interesting era for the battle of the sexes. Although the men were evidently intimidated by the woman poets and their intellectual skill level, woman were still somewhat free to write. Although the equality wasn’t there, the acceptance and acknowledgment of female intellectual capability was… whether it was openly expressed or not!
References
Revard, S.P. (1997)"Katherine Philips, Aphra Behn, and the Female Pindaric in Representing Women in Renaissance England, edited by Claude J. Summers and Ted-Larry Pebworth. Columbia: University of Missouri Press
The word 'conceit' itself has several different meanings in our society today. Firstly as a verb, it can refer to the result of ones inability to understand or comprehend something, e.g. "After eating a massive meal like I did today, I really cannot conceit eating anymore food" (Merriam Webster Dictionary, 2015). Secondly as a noun it is commonly used to describe ones admiration for another alike in the British dialects it is also used to express ones flatter for another.
ReplyDeleteBut back in the day when the word 'conceit' itself was placed in an Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnet, conceit was used as a "figure of speech, usually a simile or metaphor, that forms an extremely ingenious or fanciful parallel between apparently dissimilar or incongrous objects or situations" (Encyclopedia Britannica, 2015). This feature is very definitive in many of Elizabtehan poets' works. Interestingly, when we look deeper there are actually two different types of conceits which can be found throughout the sonnets. First of all there is the etrarchan conceit. Petrarchan seemed to be very popular between the 1820s over to the 1830s, obviously in this time Renaissance writers inherited this style at the time, and the name itself was inspired by a famous Italian scholar and lyric poet which goes by the name of Francesco Petrarca. This tool was used as a hyperbolic comparison used by a painful lover to his mistress. And secondly there was metaphysical conceits and most of these were associated with writers of the 17th century.
For example: In John Donne's sonnet 'A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning' here he compares the soul of two lovers to a compass.
Nice, very informative.
Delete"If they be two, they are two soAs stiff twin compasses are two,Thy soul the fixed foot, makes no showTo move, but doth, if the other do.And though it in the center sit,Yet when the other far doth roam,It leans, and hearkens after it,And grows erect, as that comes home."
ReplyDelete(Poetry foundation, 2015).
But even in those times there were some poets who weren't really big fans themselves of these features such as Shakespeare himself. We can tell this in his sonnet #130 he responds to the use of Petrarchan conceit. Personally, out of all of Shakespeare's sonnets I found this to be one of the easier ones to read in terms of understanding the translation to the 21st century person.
"My mistress’ eyes are nothing like the sun;Coral is far more red than her lips’ red;If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.I have seen roses damask’d, red and white,But no such roses see I in her cheeks;And in some perfumes is there more delightThan in the breath that from my mistress reeks.I love to hear her speak, yet well I knowThat music hath a far more pleasing sound;I grant I never saw a goddess go;My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground.And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rareAs any she belied with false compare."
(Shakespeare Online, 2008).
Arguably, in these comparisons some of these examples may come across as very brutal or confronting to us simply because it is not the usual way we use metaphors or similes. But from my experience, after learning Elizabethan works and sonnets through high school and analyzing their works, have given me an understanding to why these sorts of poems were written the way they were in their times. In a sense, the roarness of language that is not only written but felt through the words has a true beauty to it and I believe once that is accomplished then the piece is successful.
Encyclopedia Britannica. (2015). Conceit. Retrieved June 10, 2015, from http://www.britannica.com/art/conceit
Merriam Webster Dictionary. (2015). Conceit. Retrieved June 10, 2015, from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conceit
Poetry Foundation. (2015). A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning. Retrieved June 10, 2015, from http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173387
Shakespeare, William. Sonnet 130. Ed. Amanda Mabillard. Shakespeare Online. 8 Dec. 2008. http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/130detail.html
I believe it may be the great use of image that contributes to the beauty. And in some ways they overlap to reinforce the idea to make it more powerful.
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